franziska [ysso].
Sharing a beautiful, new space with Draw-A-Line, YSSO is a publishing company and marketing agency for product designers, from in and out of Germany. Co-founder and editor, as well as native Berliner, Franziska Klün cuts into the heart of the "becoming" energies she finds with her unique taste, editorial eye, and careful appreciation. Her stories highlight not just the beauty of the works she encounters, but the vivid lives of materials - fabric, metal, wood, stone, hair. What does it mean to co-found a magazine and marketing agency with her sister, and how does traveling all over Europe for work let her find what makes her hometown so special and revolutionary right now? How can stories of beauty be told? Design should be simple, natural, practical, and bridge art and utility. This is a mission for, of, to, and in the nature of beauty.
Berlin has a lot of history, but now it is a city where many differences come together.
a conversation.
[June 20, 2016]
> Can you tell me about how you travelled and decided to come back to your hometown, Berlin?
My sister worked for Redbull for quite a few years, so she moved to Austria, Salzburg, and then she met the Austrian working mentality, which was pretty international. And I went to New Zealand for a year and then I moved to the Netherlands to study tourism and economics, with a management studies, I think I knew after two years that this is not where I want to go, it was really focused for people who want to build their own tourism company…But I loved studying in the Netherlands, being abroad, and working with very different people. And after that I came back.
> How did you and your sister develop the idea of working together and founding YSSO?
My sister was fed up with working in a small village in Austria, so she came back to Berlin and was working still for Redbull in Berlin, and I was just – I came back in 2006 for an internship and I thought Berlin was so exciting, what’s happening here and it’s my hometown and I can’t miss this, so I was like oh I have to go back! And I got really homesick because I was here for six and a half months and then I moved back to the Netherlands, and since then I was thinking I have to move back, but I was lucky I can travel for my work. And how we founded the idea of doing something together was a process because, on the one hand working with family is great, but sometimes we had our doubts, and we just discussed it honestly and it took quite a while, maybe half a year. I had the idea of doing the online thing and she had also this idea of doing our own thing, and at some point it was just the right moment. She knew she was going to quit Redbull, and I was also ready to quit Luftansa magazine that I worked for, because it was in Hamburg and moving back and forth was not what I wanted to do.
> How are you two compartmentalizing the workflow?
It’s getting clearer, it’s definitely a process. I’m definitely the storyteller in terms of writing and images. And she is the event producer – she does event planning. When we have a meeting and communication, she is the project manager. Everyone is talking and at the end she knows what to do and what needs to be done. She is more the manager, I would say. Finances: she’s definitely more the expert. Marketing, classic marketing tools, the journalistic perspective and the concept.
> Very different ways of thinking.
Also it leads to discussions in the same moment and that's really good because we’re used to discussing things as sisters, and we learn from each other, and in our magazine we write a lot about family businesses – why are there so many family businesses and why does it work and what's the key. We’re used to conversations and we’re used to compromises. That's how it works.
> It feels almost like the family business works because the family is already a business – you’re already doing problem-solving and communication that you would be doing in a business setting, and the trust relationship and communication system is already built.
It’s really interesting.
> I also have a half-family business with my mother, so I can relate. It's a greatest advantage – it’s super lucky.
In the beginning I didn’t even think how interesting it would be to work with each other. But it’s really a process. We really started one year ago – that's when we did the booklet. There are so many new sides to get to know with her and her with me.
> Can you tell me about how you travelled and decided to come back to your hometown, Berlin?
My sister worked for Redbull for quite a few years, so she moved to Austria, Salzburg, and then she met the Austrian working mentality, which was pretty international. And I went to New Zealand for a year and then I moved to the Netherlands to study tourism and economics, with a management studies, I think I knew after two years that this is not where I want to go, it was really focused for people who want to build their own tourism company…But I loved studying in the Netherlands, being abroad, and working with very different people. And after that I came back.
> How did you and your sister develop the idea of working together and founding YSSO?
My sister was fed up with working in a small village in Austria, so she came back to Berlin and was working still for Redbull in Berlin, and I was just – I came back in 2006 for an internship and I thought Berlin was so exciting, what’s happening here and it’s my hometown and I can’t miss this, so I was like oh I have to go back! And I got really homesick because I was here for six and a half months and then I moved back to the Netherlands, and since then I was thinking I have to move back, but I was lucky I can travel for my work. And how we founded the idea of doing something together was a process because, on the one hand working with family is great, but sometimes we had our doubts, and we just discussed it honestly and it took quite a while, maybe half a year. I had the idea of doing the online thing and she had also this idea of doing our own thing, and at some point it was just the right moment. She knew she was going to quit Redbull, and I was also ready to quit Luftansa magazine that I worked for, because it was in Hamburg and moving back and forth was not what I wanted to do.
> How are you two compartmentalizing the workflow?
It’s getting clearer, it’s definitely a process. I’m definitely the storyteller in terms of writing and images. And she is the event producer – she does event planning. When we have a meeting and communication, she is the project manager. Everyone is talking and at the end she knows what to do and what needs to be done. She is more the manager, I would say. Finances: she’s definitely more the expert. Marketing, classic marketing tools, the journalistic perspective and the concept.
> Very different ways of thinking.
Also it leads to discussions in the same moment and that's really good because we’re used to discussing things as sisters, and we learn from each other, and in our magazine we write a lot about family businesses – why are there so many family businesses and why does it work and what's the key. We’re used to conversations and we’re used to compromises. That's how it works.
> It feels almost like the family business works because the family is already a business – you’re already doing problem-solving and communication that you would be doing in a business setting, and the trust relationship and communication system is already built.
It’s really interesting.
> I also have a half-family business with my mother, so I can relate. It's a greatest advantage – it’s super lucky.
In the beginning I didn’t even think how interesting it would be to work with each other. But it’s really a process. We really started one year ago – that's when we did the booklet. There are so many new sides to get to know with her and her with me.
> So it’s been a year, and YSSO is an online magazine, but I also saw the booklet. So this is the first one?
We had an opening. Beginning of April, we had a talk here with drinks and music, and for that we made this brochure. It’s like our extended business card – it’s nice to show people this.
> Where did you publish it?
We did a magazine for Klein earlier, and that's in Berlin, so it’s not that far, right in the area.
> Berlin’s local printing scene is so awesome. It seems like one of the reasons why Berlin is so interesting right now is because it’s so easy to produce things yourself. In New York it’s harder, there’s a smaller middle ground. The middle ground is rich in Berlin. Having his beautiful space and printing this easily is really key.
It’s really changing. We’ve been talking about this for years, but now it’s really changing. I can see people looking for apartments, and prices are just – we don't know. What’s so special about Berlin is that of course you still have that, and right now it’s an interesting phase because there is some money coming in. And there are some things to do, there are some big jobs. You are seeing some people with money spending it more here. Which is good for the art scene especially. It’s an interesting point right now. Big collectors are coming who didn't necessarily come before. And so it is changing. The bigger names are coming in – not only in the art scene. But it’s not set yet, so it's a little interesting of a phase. Somehow more seems possible, but on the other hand you have all these spaces for creativity. But it’s exciting because you don't need to stay on the small scale. If you do it right, there is a chance to become a bit bigger, which was not the case before, because now more professionals are coming in. I really appreciate how you have all these kinds of people here. Different mentalities, different perspectives. Berlin has a lot of history, but now it is a city where many differences come together. Of course you have that in other big cities as well, but especially in Berlin. The people are very open-minded and very international. I like Kreuzberg and Neuköln because you have all these different cultures that makes it very special. Berliners may not be the friendliest on the first meeting, but when you get to know them on the second meeting, they’re very honest people.
> In the different stories that you find, I feel like there is a certain grounded and beautiful obligation to understand and document and tell the stories of what’s happening here, artistically and productively. What kind of stories do you feel most obligated to tell?
I think it's not only the artistic things, but craft – it’s not really art. It’s, on one side, stories of personalities – I find this thrill of opening up people. I like people that are not so professional and don't know what to say. That's the craft people, really experts in the field – maybe you don't find them so much in Berlin, they’re more in the landscapes, in the countryside. In Berlin, we find many good design people who are doing many good unique special designs who maybe sometimes don't know how to tell their stories, and I like to interview them and what is their vision and grab that and tell their story, but it’s hard to generalize because there are so many different people. The design scene in Berlin is very exciting, but often they really don't know how to market themselves. Because they’re good, but they don't have to market like they would probably have to in Paris or London or New York. That's what’s interesting. They have a lot of potential, but they’re not marketing themselves. I like to tell their stories.
It’s these people, but it’s also the products that decide whether we tell the stories. It needs to be inspiring. Of course it’s easy now [for us] to tell stories in Berlin than in Switzerland, but we’re looking outside too, there’s a lot to tell. It’s different designs – it is Bauhaus heritage, although they might not want to label it like that, but it is – it’s very thought-through. This is also a very German mentality. And of course in the end it’s our taste. We don't want to be realistic – it’s not our aim to show the whole design scene of Berlin [in its entirety].
> And what are the origins of your taste?
[Laughs] That’s difficult to say…Probably it’s my family. We have similar taste. And I think it’s my father and it’s our family. We definitely grew up in two households that were interested in design, even though they wouldn't name it like that. We grew up in a nice surrounding. My stepfather, he’s also working in the art scene. DRAW-A-LINE is doing his prints, they did a video with an artist at this space, so that’s really a Kreuzberg kind of scene, very basic and grounded art scene. He was definitely an old Kreuzberg person. And then again, my father has a different taste, because he was really – in the nineties, he lived in a nice apartment and that was more showoff. And my grandmother was also very keen on design. So we were exposed to many different tastes, which is good furniture, good design.
> One of the many interesting aspects of this resulting taste is that they are restrained but still very free, on the boundary of practical craft and art, and I feel like that's a certain taste that comes from a household, that's why they feel accessible.
That's one thing I like, furniture and design – it has to have beauty, it needs to be thought-through, we need to see that, but please don't be too much. I don't like when things are too obvious. I think that’s definitely my taste. And it’s always a bit special. And materials! Always a big thing is materials, goes for fashion, furniture, product design. I mean, when you touch something, you don't even have to touch to know that it feels, when it's a good quality, that's the most important thing. That's what I also like about these rooms – that's why I’m really happy this place is new. The owners of this place were architects. We found it when it was empty and my sister and I were like what are you doing with this space! It was a garage…
> I can’t imagine!
Yeah, you really can’t imagine. We wanted to renovate, and they asked, what’s your concept? And we wrote one up quickly we didn't really have one. And the kitchen and the stairs and shelves, we were really lucky they chose materials like this. This could have been a completely different thing. If this wasn't wood, it would be a completely different feeling. Inside, I think it shows the old character, and that's really due to the materials. Also with textiles – I wrote a lot about fashion, and once you start thinking about fashion, it’s really difficult to go back to not thinking about it. It’s really bad, not good for your wallet, [laughs] you can shop second hand, get something reasonable.
> I was just at the Maybachufer market and found a beautiful lace Victoria jacket. Are you doing more events in this space?
We did one little even a bottle-maker in Holland with recycled plastic bottles. It's a very sustainable concept, called B-Tox, and another thing called Leo, we invite people who want to talk about their sustainable business concepts, which is getting big in Berlin. This is something we want to do more. There’s not a lot of people who know about it yet, but we want to advertise it. But yeah, it all has to be organized. We definitely want to make known the space. So they can rent this space too.
> What else are you working on right now in addition to the coffee Andrushka?
That's something that might happen, it’s not really fixed yet, we are doing different projects currently, it’s all coming up, we want to work together with young designers and advise them on how to market themselves – that's where we see a lot of potential. Some designers are doing all-hand made – some are also designing for bigger companies. One is also doing his own woodworking, and they became also furniture designers. It’s interesting – we want to work together with them.
> These are also family businesses?
It’s all just friends. The thing is the ones in Berlin are younger. They left their family business in the villages to work here. One of them is brothers, but mostly it’s one person or friends that come together to build a brand.
We had an opening. Beginning of April, we had a talk here with drinks and music, and for that we made this brochure. It’s like our extended business card – it’s nice to show people this.
> Where did you publish it?
We did a magazine for Klein earlier, and that's in Berlin, so it’s not that far, right in the area.
> Berlin’s local printing scene is so awesome. It seems like one of the reasons why Berlin is so interesting right now is because it’s so easy to produce things yourself. In New York it’s harder, there’s a smaller middle ground. The middle ground is rich in Berlin. Having his beautiful space and printing this easily is really key.
It’s really changing. We’ve been talking about this for years, but now it’s really changing. I can see people looking for apartments, and prices are just – we don't know. What’s so special about Berlin is that of course you still have that, and right now it’s an interesting phase because there is some money coming in. And there are some things to do, there are some big jobs. You are seeing some people with money spending it more here. Which is good for the art scene especially. It’s an interesting point right now. Big collectors are coming who didn't necessarily come before. And so it is changing. The bigger names are coming in – not only in the art scene. But it’s not set yet, so it's a little interesting of a phase. Somehow more seems possible, but on the other hand you have all these spaces for creativity. But it’s exciting because you don't need to stay on the small scale. If you do it right, there is a chance to become a bit bigger, which was not the case before, because now more professionals are coming in. I really appreciate how you have all these kinds of people here. Different mentalities, different perspectives. Berlin has a lot of history, but now it is a city where many differences come together. Of course you have that in other big cities as well, but especially in Berlin. The people are very open-minded and very international. I like Kreuzberg and Neuköln because you have all these different cultures that makes it very special. Berliners may not be the friendliest on the first meeting, but when you get to know them on the second meeting, they’re very honest people.
> In the different stories that you find, I feel like there is a certain grounded and beautiful obligation to understand and document and tell the stories of what’s happening here, artistically and productively. What kind of stories do you feel most obligated to tell?
I think it's not only the artistic things, but craft – it’s not really art. It’s, on one side, stories of personalities – I find this thrill of opening up people. I like people that are not so professional and don't know what to say. That's the craft people, really experts in the field – maybe you don't find them so much in Berlin, they’re more in the landscapes, in the countryside. In Berlin, we find many good design people who are doing many good unique special designs who maybe sometimes don't know how to tell their stories, and I like to interview them and what is their vision and grab that and tell their story, but it’s hard to generalize because there are so many different people. The design scene in Berlin is very exciting, but often they really don't know how to market themselves. Because they’re good, but they don't have to market like they would probably have to in Paris or London or New York. That's what’s interesting. They have a lot of potential, but they’re not marketing themselves. I like to tell their stories.
It’s these people, but it’s also the products that decide whether we tell the stories. It needs to be inspiring. Of course it’s easy now [for us] to tell stories in Berlin than in Switzerland, but we’re looking outside too, there’s a lot to tell. It’s different designs – it is Bauhaus heritage, although they might not want to label it like that, but it is – it’s very thought-through. This is also a very German mentality. And of course in the end it’s our taste. We don't want to be realistic – it’s not our aim to show the whole design scene of Berlin [in its entirety].
> And what are the origins of your taste?
[Laughs] That’s difficult to say…Probably it’s my family. We have similar taste. And I think it’s my father and it’s our family. We definitely grew up in two households that were interested in design, even though they wouldn't name it like that. We grew up in a nice surrounding. My stepfather, he’s also working in the art scene. DRAW-A-LINE is doing his prints, they did a video with an artist at this space, so that’s really a Kreuzberg kind of scene, very basic and grounded art scene. He was definitely an old Kreuzberg person. And then again, my father has a different taste, because he was really – in the nineties, he lived in a nice apartment and that was more showoff. And my grandmother was also very keen on design. So we were exposed to many different tastes, which is good furniture, good design.
> One of the many interesting aspects of this resulting taste is that they are restrained but still very free, on the boundary of practical craft and art, and I feel like that's a certain taste that comes from a household, that's why they feel accessible.
That's one thing I like, furniture and design – it has to have beauty, it needs to be thought-through, we need to see that, but please don't be too much. I don't like when things are too obvious. I think that’s definitely my taste. And it’s always a bit special. And materials! Always a big thing is materials, goes for fashion, furniture, product design. I mean, when you touch something, you don't even have to touch to know that it feels, when it's a good quality, that's the most important thing. That's what I also like about these rooms – that's why I’m really happy this place is new. The owners of this place were architects. We found it when it was empty and my sister and I were like what are you doing with this space! It was a garage…
> I can’t imagine!
Yeah, you really can’t imagine. We wanted to renovate, and they asked, what’s your concept? And we wrote one up quickly we didn't really have one. And the kitchen and the stairs and shelves, we were really lucky they chose materials like this. This could have been a completely different thing. If this wasn't wood, it would be a completely different feeling. Inside, I think it shows the old character, and that's really due to the materials. Also with textiles – I wrote a lot about fashion, and once you start thinking about fashion, it’s really difficult to go back to not thinking about it. It’s really bad, not good for your wallet, [laughs] you can shop second hand, get something reasonable.
> I was just at the Maybachufer market and found a beautiful lace Victoria jacket. Are you doing more events in this space?
We did one little even a bottle-maker in Holland with recycled plastic bottles. It's a very sustainable concept, called B-Tox, and another thing called Leo, we invite people who want to talk about their sustainable business concepts, which is getting big in Berlin. This is something we want to do more. There’s not a lot of people who know about it yet, but we want to advertise it. But yeah, it all has to be organized. We definitely want to make known the space. So they can rent this space too.
> What else are you working on right now in addition to the coffee Andrushka?
That's something that might happen, it’s not really fixed yet, we are doing different projects currently, it’s all coming up, we want to work together with young designers and advise them on how to market themselves – that's where we see a lot of potential. Some designers are doing all-hand made – some are also designing for bigger companies. One is also doing his own woodworking, and they became also furniture designers. It’s interesting – we want to work together with them.
> These are also family businesses?
It’s all just friends. The thing is the ones in Berlin are younger. They left their family business in the villages to work here. One of them is brothers, but mostly it’s one person or friends that come together to build a brand.
> So the next steps right now are more about marketing.
The focus right now is to get a few clients so that we can keep running. The magazine is something we will do on the side. We just can’t put our energies in that because we don't get direct revenue out of that. So we’re focusing on the website and the magazine later.
> It must be very time consuming.
You just have to be organized when you’re doing something like that. We’re quite organized, but not enough – you really have to or else your whole business doesn't work.
> So many exciting doors are opening though!
I think that that’s really something important! I couldn’t imagine doing a 9-to-5 job that is always the same. I like this kind of artistic way of living.
> It's the most – you’re making your own universe here. Especially if you create more relationships with clients, the aesthetic and taste you would be spreading, and the designers amplify it more.
It's the start of an adventure. Sometimes it’s not so easy, but what would be the other option? You are our own driver. I would have never done that, I’m now going to work self-employed, but it just grew into that, because when I worked for a magazine at a publishing house, at one point I was so fed up, and I thought I had to leave I have to cut it off, I don't care what comes next. And I told them I will cut off in three months, and had some time to tell people I’m looking for something new, and then I had so many requests for small jobs, ongoing jobs, and I thought it was fun to see what was coming up, and somehow I got to know how this feels, working freelance.
> It feels very organic and spontaneous.
In a way you’re really scared, but now of course it’s different, it's a huge step. Writing freelance as a journalist is very different. But on the other hand it's a good set up, a good introduction to freelance, and to making a company. You get relaxed about phases of when nothing comes in.
> How do you do your interviews?
We always take a photographer. We want to be inclusive. I mostly do the interviews myself, but I also have some writers now interested in writing for us and who would go do it, but we also don't have this big budget, so it’s mostly me. I choose the people or companies who we go to see.
> I still want to know how you find the people you choose. I think that's where your uniqueness comes from, but I know it’s not a simple answer.
How you find the designers? It’s constantly happening. You read something, you hear something, you know you’re gonna go there, so you start researching – it’s really journalistic work. It’s difficult to explain because it’s what I always do. You go from one website to the next, there was some story about designs in Vienna, and then you start looking, who do they write about, and you go to their website and find someone else. We also have this huge list of recommendations of all the people you’re gonna go to see. So that's how we do it. The research is constantly going on. We’re constantly looking for companies that might be featured at one point.
> True journalist eye is always open.
Sometimes I think it could be elaborated much more, this journalistic perspective and approach, and I have so many ideas for it, but it will come at some point.
> This view outside your window, you don't get it in New York.
You don't really notice it anymore. But of course every city is different.
> But the colors, materials, streets, shapes – Berlin is so design-conscious. Not just street art, but the vine-work or the arch, it's a very particular minimalistic and historic taste.
That's very interesting. Maybe New York is similar and Berlin is so different in each place [kiez or neighborhood]. It’s not a beautiful city, it’s not like Paris, easy to consume, I know many people don't like that, think it’s rough and not friendly – especially in the winter. So Berlin has these two sides, winter and summer is like two faces, so different. But yeah, there is always something to observe. But at the same time, it is very relaxed. I can also understand that people say it’s too big for them. But I just like it. Probably because I know the city so well. Otherwise it’s not so easy to consume. When you don't know where to go. Because it’s so different.
I worked before for a local magazine like TimeOut. They used to be much more big and important ten years ago, until the Internet hit, and that's why I started working for the journalistic freelance. But I learned so much about Berlin at the time, where the new restaurant, the new shop is. And I really liked that.
> That must be so fun, to always see in a different light, just like working with your sister.
The focus right now is to get a few clients so that we can keep running. The magazine is something we will do on the side. We just can’t put our energies in that because we don't get direct revenue out of that. So we’re focusing on the website and the magazine later.
> It must be very time consuming.
You just have to be organized when you’re doing something like that. We’re quite organized, but not enough – you really have to or else your whole business doesn't work.
> So many exciting doors are opening though!
I think that that’s really something important! I couldn’t imagine doing a 9-to-5 job that is always the same. I like this kind of artistic way of living.
> It's the most – you’re making your own universe here. Especially if you create more relationships with clients, the aesthetic and taste you would be spreading, and the designers amplify it more.
It's the start of an adventure. Sometimes it’s not so easy, but what would be the other option? You are our own driver. I would have never done that, I’m now going to work self-employed, but it just grew into that, because when I worked for a magazine at a publishing house, at one point I was so fed up, and I thought I had to leave I have to cut it off, I don't care what comes next. And I told them I will cut off in three months, and had some time to tell people I’m looking for something new, and then I had so many requests for small jobs, ongoing jobs, and I thought it was fun to see what was coming up, and somehow I got to know how this feels, working freelance.
> It feels very organic and spontaneous.
In a way you’re really scared, but now of course it’s different, it's a huge step. Writing freelance as a journalist is very different. But on the other hand it's a good set up, a good introduction to freelance, and to making a company. You get relaxed about phases of when nothing comes in.
> How do you do your interviews?
We always take a photographer. We want to be inclusive. I mostly do the interviews myself, but I also have some writers now interested in writing for us and who would go do it, but we also don't have this big budget, so it’s mostly me. I choose the people or companies who we go to see.
> I still want to know how you find the people you choose. I think that's where your uniqueness comes from, but I know it’s not a simple answer.
How you find the designers? It’s constantly happening. You read something, you hear something, you know you’re gonna go there, so you start researching – it’s really journalistic work. It’s difficult to explain because it’s what I always do. You go from one website to the next, there was some story about designs in Vienna, and then you start looking, who do they write about, and you go to their website and find someone else. We also have this huge list of recommendations of all the people you’re gonna go to see. So that's how we do it. The research is constantly going on. We’re constantly looking for companies that might be featured at one point.
> True journalist eye is always open.
Sometimes I think it could be elaborated much more, this journalistic perspective and approach, and I have so many ideas for it, but it will come at some point.
> This view outside your window, you don't get it in New York.
You don't really notice it anymore. But of course every city is different.
> But the colors, materials, streets, shapes – Berlin is so design-conscious. Not just street art, but the vine-work or the arch, it's a very particular minimalistic and historic taste.
That's very interesting. Maybe New York is similar and Berlin is so different in each place [kiez or neighborhood]. It’s not a beautiful city, it’s not like Paris, easy to consume, I know many people don't like that, think it’s rough and not friendly – especially in the winter. So Berlin has these two sides, winter and summer is like two faces, so different. But yeah, there is always something to observe. But at the same time, it is very relaxed. I can also understand that people say it’s too big for them. But I just like it. Probably because I know the city so well. Otherwise it’s not so easy to consume. When you don't know where to go. Because it’s so different.
I worked before for a local magazine like TimeOut. They used to be much more big and important ten years ago, until the Internet hit, and that's why I started working for the journalistic freelance. But I learned so much about Berlin at the time, where the new restaurant, the new shop is. And I really liked that.
> That must be so fun, to always see in a different light, just like working with your sister.