jenee [dancer].
[profile]
Everyone is just doing their own thing, everything goes, and it works somehow.
a conversation.
[June 1, 2016]
> How have you been fitting into or not fitting into Berlin?
It’s like, for me, it’s interesting. For me, when I first came to Berlin it was immediately a sense of home, more so than I ever had in Brooklyn. New York for me is totally my home too, but I never really felt safe there. I never felt super safe, I never felt like it was my place for life, not that Berlin is either, but then again who wants to do anything for life. It was sort of a place that I felt more comfortable. When I was in Paris, everyone looked at me funny, they would stare all the time, I don't know, maybe they could tell I wasn't form France. It’s hard to live in Paris, I lived there for one year, but if you don't speak French…if you speak to them in French they speak to you in English. So I decided to travel and when I came here I was like for here for sure. I had way more culture shock in Paris than here, it’s been cool, a learning experience. I try not to think too much about it or else I freak myself out. I just do the little things that add up to what I want to do.
> For whom have you been writing for?
I write for my own channels and thechanger.org. I do a lot of social media writing, like live-stream corresponding of media events. I pretty much do what I love to do. Started with PeriscopeLive and now FacebookLive.
> What are those?
It’s like, we could be live right now, our whole conversation, and people can just watch, they can just join in. It’s like a live feed. It's the next big thing that’s happening right now. So for a lot of events, people want social media live streams to get more attention. Have you heard of chess boxing? It’s chess and boxing in one sport.
> Trying to visualize it…
[Laugh] They just did a crowd-funding campaign for it. It’s a round of chess followed by a round of boxing. Four minutes chess, four minutes boxing. It’s about being strong and intelligent at the same time. It's a great sporting event to be at. I get to walk around and correspond the fights.
> How did you get there?
Berlin is a really small town. There’s a saying that Berlin is like a village. Everyone knows everyone else. They just remember I do things, and they send me emails, “I think it’d be great if you could do our video campaign!” Tech Open Air is a huge, leading tech festival here. So the founder for chess-boxing gave a talk there. The world is really small, so I ended up doing live-stream for it. And a lot of other events, but that’s what comes to mind right now.
> Sounds like the ultimate Olympian sport!
It is! It came from a French comic book in the nineties. The guy, he’s a Dutch guy, but he brought it to life. They’re having an equity crowd-funding right now.
> What other start-ups have you been looking into?
There’s a place called Factory in Mitte-Wedding. They house Twitter, Soundcloud and the new smaller ones. It’s just a really cool space, with an interesting history of Berlin anyway. Kind of like what they did with Silicon Valley’s campuses. So I like to be involved with these companies too. I want to create viral videos for topics that matter. Not so much like Upworthy, I want them to be more entertaining than just informative. I want to be able to tell a story, something that’s relevant and relatable to the people watching, whether that's through characters, I want to be able to do something that sticks with people, rather than a quick blurb. I want it to be about things that more people should know more about, like urban mobility and vertical farming.
> How do you see the different start-ups, the bigger ones versus the smaller ones?
The smaller ones are bootstrapping, the bigger ones have funding. That's really the biggest difference. For the most part everyone has a great idea. It’s about having the right team, the structure is in place within your management, and that's where a lot of companies are right now in Berlin. There are some great start-ups, but I’m also seeing a lot of them fail. Here today and gone tomorrow.
> What’s the key for them to stay?
They have to be able pitch to get funding, essentially. They have to get funding from VCs or crowdfunding. Lots of companies are doing that right now. There’s a Kickstarter for Germany called Startnext. They get funding that way.
> It seems like Berlin in particular is a city that is more prone to things like startups because people are curious and have an eye for up-an-coming new things – probably a bit more than New York?
I definitely see what you’re saying and I agree, I feel like with New York – two things why it’s working better in Germany. One thing is that overall, which now that we’re talking about it it has come to light for me, is that Germans are very risk averse. They don't like taking risks. They’re not American in the sense that just go in and if they fail, pick it back up. They’re not like that. They’re very practical, methodical, like to know way ahead of time if it works, very on time. And they’re just very put together in that way. They’re not super optimistic either. They have a pessimistic bone to them that's kind of like, hm I don't know. That's one reason why crowdfunding works here: there is less risk involved. It already proves the point, like, okay, I guess my idea is not good, versus doing all this stuff and not seeing anything come of it. Also, there is this thing – they’re very big on community and look for things to support. They see the results in supporting new things, oh wait our quality of life is so much better because we supported that, look at all those windmills. The system itself is feeding itself as opposed to in a positive way of coming from dust and falling part and oh well, start it all over again. It’s much more, let’s take proper steps and be more careful. That's also why some bigger executives in Germany feel that Germans can’t disrupt because they’re too cautious, too careful. But again, I feel that's that pessimistic bone, some will and some won’t. There’s a whole book on can Germans disrupt? and the answer was basically, no.
> Do you think Berliner’s feel pressured to disrupt?
A little bit, totally. That’s why everything is about growth-hacking, bio-hacking – everything is about hacking your way to the top. And so many companies are popping up that are a direct copy of things we have in the States. They know the system works, like Deliveroo is the German Seamless.
> Do you think that lends to more or less conformity?
It’s not so much disruption as it is a mimicking. But from that comes great things too. Berlin is a creative city. Now you have people that aren’t finance-based, there’s also that creative edge that, if you throw that into the mix, you don't know what you’ll get. So I think it's a very interesting time to be here. I have some friends doing some interesting art-type start-ups. These guys, BLÆNK MINDS, they are doing video DJing; they team up with artists, create original videos, and DJ the song to the video in real-time. They create original videos for every song they play. So their sets are insanely cool.
> Where are they based?
Right up the block, that's where Alex Hall [her boyfriend] is right now. They’re our friends who do this. They’re back and forth between New York now, and I was helping them get opportunities. It's a team – a girl, Doro, and Christian. The guy, Christian, does all the video stuff, and Doro is the creative, artistic director. She finds all of the artists and comes up with a collaboration of some sort. We did a video with them, I did one dancing for them and Alex just did one with of a bunch of clouds, it came out really cool, with cloud time-lapses and he inverted them [Fairmont & SwitchSt(d)ance - Ancient Dust]. They’re working on the website now, and they just had a talk a month or two ago at NYU – they have ties with NYU so they were telling people about their idea, getting the word out. In the long run, I think they’re creating a platform that allows artists to connect with each other, sort of like a Facebook for artists to collaborate.
> Is there a particular direction that Dorothy is taking?
I think it’s just networking and finding someone you want to work with. Whenever you start this stuff, you go through your networks first and also jump a little ahead and reach out and see whoever responds back. So that’s what they've been doing. So far, it’s been great – dancers, fashion, people who create cool costumes, musicians of course, the songs have to be dance-able, and they do releases for artists, creative videos for the songs, visual artists, video people.
> In German?
It’s more in English, but it’s mostly music, so. Here in Berlin it’s mostly techno, house sometimes, scene, in terms of music – at first it was like, cool! And now it’s like, oh, can I get some R&B, some hip-hop, some jazz, rather than something that's just um-tsu-um-tsu. It gets old eventually.
> How have you been fitting into or not fitting into Berlin?
It’s like, for me, it’s interesting. For me, when I first came to Berlin it was immediately a sense of home, more so than I ever had in Brooklyn. New York for me is totally my home too, but I never really felt safe there. I never felt super safe, I never felt like it was my place for life, not that Berlin is either, but then again who wants to do anything for life. It was sort of a place that I felt more comfortable. When I was in Paris, everyone looked at me funny, they would stare all the time, I don't know, maybe they could tell I wasn't form France. It’s hard to live in Paris, I lived there for one year, but if you don't speak French…if you speak to them in French they speak to you in English. So I decided to travel and when I came here I was like for here for sure. I had way more culture shock in Paris than here, it’s been cool, a learning experience. I try not to think too much about it or else I freak myself out. I just do the little things that add up to what I want to do.
> For whom have you been writing for?
I write for my own channels and thechanger.org. I do a lot of social media writing, like live-stream corresponding of media events. I pretty much do what I love to do. Started with PeriscopeLive and now FacebookLive.
> What are those?
It’s like, we could be live right now, our whole conversation, and people can just watch, they can just join in. It’s like a live feed. It's the next big thing that’s happening right now. So for a lot of events, people want social media live streams to get more attention. Have you heard of chess boxing? It’s chess and boxing in one sport.
> Trying to visualize it…
[Laugh] They just did a crowd-funding campaign for it. It’s a round of chess followed by a round of boxing. Four minutes chess, four minutes boxing. It’s about being strong and intelligent at the same time. It's a great sporting event to be at. I get to walk around and correspond the fights.
> How did you get there?
Berlin is a really small town. There’s a saying that Berlin is like a village. Everyone knows everyone else. They just remember I do things, and they send me emails, “I think it’d be great if you could do our video campaign!” Tech Open Air is a huge, leading tech festival here. So the founder for chess-boxing gave a talk there. The world is really small, so I ended up doing live-stream for it. And a lot of other events, but that’s what comes to mind right now.
> Sounds like the ultimate Olympian sport!
It is! It came from a French comic book in the nineties. The guy, he’s a Dutch guy, but he brought it to life. They’re having an equity crowd-funding right now.
> What other start-ups have you been looking into?
There’s a place called Factory in Mitte-Wedding. They house Twitter, Soundcloud and the new smaller ones. It’s just a really cool space, with an interesting history of Berlin anyway. Kind of like what they did with Silicon Valley’s campuses. So I like to be involved with these companies too. I want to create viral videos for topics that matter. Not so much like Upworthy, I want them to be more entertaining than just informative. I want to be able to tell a story, something that’s relevant and relatable to the people watching, whether that's through characters, I want to be able to do something that sticks with people, rather than a quick blurb. I want it to be about things that more people should know more about, like urban mobility and vertical farming.
> How do you see the different start-ups, the bigger ones versus the smaller ones?
The smaller ones are bootstrapping, the bigger ones have funding. That's really the biggest difference. For the most part everyone has a great idea. It’s about having the right team, the structure is in place within your management, and that's where a lot of companies are right now in Berlin. There are some great start-ups, but I’m also seeing a lot of them fail. Here today and gone tomorrow.
> What’s the key for them to stay?
They have to be able pitch to get funding, essentially. They have to get funding from VCs or crowdfunding. Lots of companies are doing that right now. There’s a Kickstarter for Germany called Startnext. They get funding that way.
> It seems like Berlin in particular is a city that is more prone to things like startups because people are curious and have an eye for up-an-coming new things – probably a bit more than New York?
I definitely see what you’re saying and I agree, I feel like with New York – two things why it’s working better in Germany. One thing is that overall, which now that we’re talking about it it has come to light for me, is that Germans are very risk averse. They don't like taking risks. They’re not American in the sense that just go in and if they fail, pick it back up. They’re not like that. They’re very practical, methodical, like to know way ahead of time if it works, very on time. And they’re just very put together in that way. They’re not super optimistic either. They have a pessimistic bone to them that's kind of like, hm I don't know. That's one reason why crowdfunding works here: there is less risk involved. It already proves the point, like, okay, I guess my idea is not good, versus doing all this stuff and not seeing anything come of it. Also, there is this thing – they’re very big on community and look for things to support. They see the results in supporting new things, oh wait our quality of life is so much better because we supported that, look at all those windmills. The system itself is feeding itself as opposed to in a positive way of coming from dust and falling part and oh well, start it all over again. It’s much more, let’s take proper steps and be more careful. That's also why some bigger executives in Germany feel that Germans can’t disrupt because they’re too cautious, too careful. But again, I feel that's that pessimistic bone, some will and some won’t. There’s a whole book on can Germans disrupt? and the answer was basically, no.
> Do you think Berliner’s feel pressured to disrupt?
A little bit, totally. That’s why everything is about growth-hacking, bio-hacking – everything is about hacking your way to the top. And so many companies are popping up that are a direct copy of things we have in the States. They know the system works, like Deliveroo is the German Seamless.
> Do you think that lends to more or less conformity?
It’s not so much disruption as it is a mimicking. But from that comes great things too. Berlin is a creative city. Now you have people that aren’t finance-based, there’s also that creative edge that, if you throw that into the mix, you don't know what you’ll get. So I think it's a very interesting time to be here. I have some friends doing some interesting art-type start-ups. These guys, BLÆNK MINDS, they are doing video DJing; they team up with artists, create original videos, and DJ the song to the video in real-time. They create original videos for every song they play. So their sets are insanely cool.
> Where are they based?
Right up the block, that's where Alex Hall [her boyfriend] is right now. They’re our friends who do this. They’re back and forth between New York now, and I was helping them get opportunities. It's a team – a girl, Doro, and Christian. The guy, Christian, does all the video stuff, and Doro is the creative, artistic director. She finds all of the artists and comes up with a collaboration of some sort. We did a video with them, I did one dancing for them and Alex just did one with of a bunch of clouds, it came out really cool, with cloud time-lapses and he inverted them [Fairmont & SwitchSt(d)ance - Ancient Dust]. They’re working on the website now, and they just had a talk a month or two ago at NYU – they have ties with NYU so they were telling people about their idea, getting the word out. In the long run, I think they’re creating a platform that allows artists to connect with each other, sort of like a Facebook for artists to collaborate.
> Is there a particular direction that Dorothy is taking?
I think it’s just networking and finding someone you want to work with. Whenever you start this stuff, you go through your networks first and also jump a little ahead and reach out and see whoever responds back. So that’s what they've been doing. So far, it’s been great – dancers, fashion, people who create cool costumes, musicians of course, the songs have to be dance-able, and they do releases for artists, creative videos for the songs, visual artists, video people.
> In German?
It’s more in English, but it’s mostly music, so. Here in Berlin it’s mostly techno, house sometimes, scene, in terms of music – at first it was like, cool! And now it’s like, oh, can I get some R&B, some hip-hop, some jazz, rather than something that's just um-tsu-um-tsu. It gets old eventually.
> Who do you dance to?
If I’m doing House I’ll do deep house, or hip hop. Whoever I’m inspired by that week. If I’m working, I play deep house or listen to podcasts.
> I was speaking to DRAW A LINE and they said the financial situation made it easier, but I was also wondering, here, compared to New York, art and fashion and creativity is ingrained everywhere, it’s not an event to go to a gallery or performance, it’s part of the daily routine, and I’m really interested in why that works here and not so much in other places.
Here it’s more ingrained?
> It’s easier, more accessible. It's a different consciousness.
When I think of the art scene in New York, I think it’s overly competitive. It’s become more of a sport, versus a more recreational way of life. It’s more like art for sport. And that's not to say it’s not particularly competitive here. I don't find it to be very competitive here. I feel like everyone is just doing their own thing and it works somehow. I feel that about Berlin as a whole. Everyone is just doing their own thing, everything goes, and it works somehow. Like, no gates on that thing and you can fall in but whatever nobody is gonna bother you! No one is gonna bother you and you don't have to worry about, you can’t stand there! Why? You just can’t. That kind of stuff. Or crime. And that opens it up to be more free and like that pyramid of self-actualization, that's where everyone is at right now! You know, all the other rings in the pyramid are taken care of – you have your house, you have your health, you have your food, safety for the most part, now all you have to do is your mind – how do I get enlightened? What’s more enlightening to me? I can go meditate or do this yoga class, or whatever.
> It’s more stable and you have the emotional surplus to just focus on other things.
Even when I think of dance or art in the States, or even just like, galleries, you can almost sense the desperation – either you’re desperate or you’re doing so well and you know all the right people – it’s these two huge gaps and in the middle everyone is just hustling and working at a restaurant or whatever. It’s weird. And I don't feel like that’s where art should grow from. I feel like it’s exhausting, and stifling almost. Here I know people that sell their paintings a few times a week under a bridge and they’re good for the month. And that's it. And maybe they'll go to Rome for the weekend. It’s not that difficult. It’s not this fight-or-flight mode where they need to be producing or else I’m in the streets, not even then. I also have friends, they’re actors, that are writing their screenplays, doing rehearsals and stuff, and also focusing on grant-writing and searching for government funds and stuff like that to be able to bring their tours around, and that's stressful for them but it’s still doable, you know, it’s not like, if I don't do this I won’t be able to eat for four months, oh god I have to choose between this and my family, no one has to really do stuff like that. At least I haven’t met anyone like that. There are hard times, but at the end of the day you know you’re taken care of so that’s why things are slower. You wont find people walking all that fast. You won’t find people carrying their coffee to go. You won’t find people running – maybe I’ll see someone run to the bus once a week. But I never see anyone in a hurry. They can show up to work at ten, they don't have to be there super on-the-dot or else! I think it’s better that way. There’s less pressure, less stress.
> Sometimes you need a balance between that and – productivity doesn't have to be that high in those environments. Sometimes you need a good amount of positive tension to keep you going.
I think so too, especially in the colder months when it’s cloudier as well. People are often complaining, oh it’s so cloudy, where’s the sun, and I never notice because I have such a nice, bright [view], but if you’re on a lower floor it’s dark and ugh, you know, you feel the drain. But I’m like man, if your biggest worry is the clouds, you’re doing fine.
> Berlin is awesome – I wish I could do something like BLÆNK MINDS that connects Berlin and New York. Can you tell me more about your dance? So you have your workshops…and what is your background in dance?
Mostly modern contemporary dance, that’s my favorite, and hip-hop. I used to be in a lot of groups. When I was in Paris I had a fellowship to train ballet for a year. So I was training in ballet, even though, it was supposed to be strictly ballet, but I was sort of cheating and doing jazz and hip hop because ballet can get so boring sometimes [laughs]. So I was doing that and I would sneak off to this really good hip-hop studio just outside of Paris, ever heard of Juste Debout? It’s like the biggest freestyle type of competition for popping, locking, breakdance, everything all in one, huge huge huge. That's where Les Twins came from. It’s like the biggest thing ever and I didn't even know about it before I went there. It’s interesting, their style is more freestyle and they’re just – I feel like, in New York, or in the States, the West dance scene is choreography based: hand here, bop bop bop. For them, it comes organically straight through freestyling. Their genius is straight through freestyling. Whereas mostly ours is, can you do the moves in time, and can you do it better than the person next to you. But this is like, this is my original style, no one can do it like me anyway. That was different for me because I’d always been – like in ballet, your foot’s there, and if it’s not then its wrong. And the same thing for hip-hop: if your hand’s not here, it’s not the move. So that was my first time ever figuring out my own range of movement in terms of hip-hop, which is a lot easier to do in modern, which is why I like modern so much. Because you can improve, you can do anything and there’s still technique to it. That's why I love it. Like right in the middle of everything. There’s all kinds of modern techniques and you have the option to do whatever you want. That's sort of a tangent. [laughs]
> No, I see a lot more of this breaking away from the convention too. I think Youtubers are also changing the way we learn dance and see dance.
Who comes to mind?
> Like Ian Eastwood, the whole LA scene – movement lifestyle, Aya Sato, Brian Puspos, Kyle Hanagami, Lyle Beniga, Koharu Sugawara, Chachi, Urban Dance Camp, Royal Family Dance Crew. I think global access of dance makes it different.
I think so too. Dance is far more appreciated mainstream-wise, but then at the same time there’s a whole style of what mainstream looks like. If I tell someone I do modern dance, they’ll be like oh I saw that on so you think you can dance, and I’m like, girl, I don't think we’re even talking about the same technique or idea of what it might even possibly look like. Even – I was in a company back in the States and the choreographer was trained by Martha Graham, and when he’s talking about these shows he’s like, these are freak shows, like acrobatic freak shows. It’s great that dance is more popular now, but it brings about this one look and idea of what it’s supposed to be like, and it’s not, if you never come out of that box, if you’re in the middle of America somewhere, and that's all you see for dance and your school does only that, you’ll come to New York and be like, what the hell is this? You’ll be completely out of, like a fish out of water, like, what? It’s interesting in that sense. That's why New York is really good because you can see so much of everything. I actually miss a lot more of that technique stuff. I feel like here, it’s almost too much abstract and too much – in the art scene, when you talk to other dancers and people who were actors and stuff that see shows, we often are like, how was that festival and they’re like, oh it was a lot of crap but there was that one good thing… There’s a lot of that in modern dance, like, okay, that's cool, but the whole thing for a week? I was like, technique, where is it? Berlin is very spacey in that sense, everyone does all kinds of whatever it is they want to do, but if you, dance-wise, if you’re looking to do dance you’ll find more opportunities in other cities, like Dusseldorf and Munich too, Hamburg, Frankfurt…
> I just saw a poster of a dance festival in Hamburg.
The dance culture is more there, technique-wise. And that's where the auditions mostly are, so I kind of find myself in a bit of a pickle here, so I’m here in Berlin in the best city that I could ever find for myself, but in order to go to the auditions I have to save up money and then go and then get it, whereas if you’re a European citizen, there are a bunch of government agencies that pay for you to go to your audition! I’m just like, dude, man! If I could get that deal, I’m still looking like, is something in Berlin, please let something be in Berlin, you know, I mean, and it’s not really working that way. So I have to find a better way to grab myself into a company, because most of my friends who are in a company, they have an apartment in Berlin but they spend most of their season and their year wherever their company is based out of, so their apartment is kind of just hanging or they sublet it out. Which I wouldn't mind doing, but I don't think it’s just the right timing just yet. I feel like I’m going to find something when the time is right, so yeah.
> But also that makes it easier for European citizens to get into it and do it.
Right? It’s far more appreciative and supportive, which is why it happens. There’s that value there. It’s not like, oh yeah, you won’t die if you don't do art, whatever. It’s like, let’s support the arts because from that come all kinds of great innovations! It’s great to have that kind of a cultural hub of things. It’s not just to be pretty, there’s more to it. Psychologically, physiologically, there’s more to it than that. I think [in the States] we are still underdeveloped in that sense – we’re still hung up on math and science, and it’s like, come on now, there’s more to the human dynamic than math and science.
> We’re still in the math-science-money phase. It’s very frustrating.
It is. I almost feel like it’s on purpose that there’s such a lack for the arts. Every time something must go, oh, get rid of music, get rid of drama – that's terrible. What the hell, it makes no sense.
> That's super interesting, that traditionally Europe has more of a culture that values the arts.
I always think of it as the United States is still super young, like a super young country, we haven’t gone through our millions of wars that all these European countries have gone through for centuries, like centuries – we’re like, barely a century and a half old, so it’s like, and when I see it from that perspective, America is like, “look how tough I am, give me attention!” [Laughing.] “Like my movie! Like my movie!” and it’s like, oh, you’re so cute. You’re still growing, you little baby. Okay, okay. So I see it like that. You guys can’t even stop shooting each other like, come on now. Oh man, do not get in a conversation with somebody about politics over here [in Berlin]. About, like, the presidential election – it’s just so embarrassing, like please. Let’s just not talk about it. It’s like apologizing to the world all the time, like oh man, we’re screwing up again. “How do you go from Obama to Trump?” I’m like, I live here now, I don't know. So embarrassing, gosh darn it. And it’s so funny because the people here are usually far more informed than Americans are, because [in the States] we’re bombarded by whomever’s baby, or like somebody’s drama, somebody getting married, who’s like nobody really. It’s weird.
> It's a different consciousness towards politics too.
For sure, yeah, it’s not number one priority. For most people, they try to ignore it, or they just don't want any part of it because they probably don't feel like they’re too much value to the system in the first place, so it’s like, they’re gonna do what they wanna do, but everyone here is like, what? Don't you guys care? And it’s like, sort of, yeah, but not really because what are you gonna do, whatever happens they can steal elections, they can change laws…you just kind of gotta go with the flow of stuff and cover your head.
> There are still too many people in the system who are not represented. I guess that just proves the baby America point: it’s working on it.
If I’m doing House I’ll do deep house, or hip hop. Whoever I’m inspired by that week. If I’m working, I play deep house or listen to podcasts.
> I was speaking to DRAW A LINE and they said the financial situation made it easier, but I was also wondering, here, compared to New York, art and fashion and creativity is ingrained everywhere, it’s not an event to go to a gallery or performance, it’s part of the daily routine, and I’m really interested in why that works here and not so much in other places.
Here it’s more ingrained?
> It’s easier, more accessible. It's a different consciousness.
When I think of the art scene in New York, I think it’s overly competitive. It’s become more of a sport, versus a more recreational way of life. It’s more like art for sport. And that's not to say it’s not particularly competitive here. I don't find it to be very competitive here. I feel like everyone is just doing their own thing and it works somehow. I feel that about Berlin as a whole. Everyone is just doing their own thing, everything goes, and it works somehow. Like, no gates on that thing and you can fall in but whatever nobody is gonna bother you! No one is gonna bother you and you don't have to worry about, you can’t stand there! Why? You just can’t. That kind of stuff. Or crime. And that opens it up to be more free and like that pyramid of self-actualization, that's where everyone is at right now! You know, all the other rings in the pyramid are taken care of – you have your house, you have your health, you have your food, safety for the most part, now all you have to do is your mind – how do I get enlightened? What’s more enlightening to me? I can go meditate or do this yoga class, or whatever.
> It’s more stable and you have the emotional surplus to just focus on other things.
Even when I think of dance or art in the States, or even just like, galleries, you can almost sense the desperation – either you’re desperate or you’re doing so well and you know all the right people – it’s these two huge gaps and in the middle everyone is just hustling and working at a restaurant or whatever. It’s weird. And I don't feel like that’s where art should grow from. I feel like it’s exhausting, and stifling almost. Here I know people that sell their paintings a few times a week under a bridge and they’re good for the month. And that's it. And maybe they'll go to Rome for the weekend. It’s not that difficult. It’s not this fight-or-flight mode where they need to be producing or else I’m in the streets, not even then. I also have friends, they’re actors, that are writing their screenplays, doing rehearsals and stuff, and also focusing on grant-writing and searching for government funds and stuff like that to be able to bring their tours around, and that's stressful for them but it’s still doable, you know, it’s not like, if I don't do this I won’t be able to eat for four months, oh god I have to choose between this and my family, no one has to really do stuff like that. At least I haven’t met anyone like that. There are hard times, but at the end of the day you know you’re taken care of so that’s why things are slower. You wont find people walking all that fast. You won’t find people carrying their coffee to go. You won’t find people running – maybe I’ll see someone run to the bus once a week. But I never see anyone in a hurry. They can show up to work at ten, they don't have to be there super on-the-dot or else! I think it’s better that way. There’s less pressure, less stress.
> Sometimes you need a balance between that and – productivity doesn't have to be that high in those environments. Sometimes you need a good amount of positive tension to keep you going.
I think so too, especially in the colder months when it’s cloudier as well. People are often complaining, oh it’s so cloudy, where’s the sun, and I never notice because I have such a nice, bright [view], but if you’re on a lower floor it’s dark and ugh, you know, you feel the drain. But I’m like man, if your biggest worry is the clouds, you’re doing fine.
> Berlin is awesome – I wish I could do something like BLÆNK MINDS that connects Berlin and New York. Can you tell me more about your dance? So you have your workshops…and what is your background in dance?
Mostly modern contemporary dance, that’s my favorite, and hip-hop. I used to be in a lot of groups. When I was in Paris I had a fellowship to train ballet for a year. So I was training in ballet, even though, it was supposed to be strictly ballet, but I was sort of cheating and doing jazz and hip hop because ballet can get so boring sometimes [laughs]. So I was doing that and I would sneak off to this really good hip-hop studio just outside of Paris, ever heard of Juste Debout? It’s like the biggest freestyle type of competition for popping, locking, breakdance, everything all in one, huge huge huge. That's where Les Twins came from. It’s like the biggest thing ever and I didn't even know about it before I went there. It’s interesting, their style is more freestyle and they’re just – I feel like, in New York, or in the States, the West dance scene is choreography based: hand here, bop bop bop. For them, it comes organically straight through freestyling. Their genius is straight through freestyling. Whereas mostly ours is, can you do the moves in time, and can you do it better than the person next to you. But this is like, this is my original style, no one can do it like me anyway. That was different for me because I’d always been – like in ballet, your foot’s there, and if it’s not then its wrong. And the same thing for hip-hop: if your hand’s not here, it’s not the move. So that was my first time ever figuring out my own range of movement in terms of hip-hop, which is a lot easier to do in modern, which is why I like modern so much. Because you can improve, you can do anything and there’s still technique to it. That's why I love it. Like right in the middle of everything. There’s all kinds of modern techniques and you have the option to do whatever you want. That's sort of a tangent. [laughs]
> No, I see a lot more of this breaking away from the convention too. I think Youtubers are also changing the way we learn dance and see dance.
Who comes to mind?
> Like Ian Eastwood, the whole LA scene – movement lifestyle, Aya Sato, Brian Puspos, Kyle Hanagami, Lyle Beniga, Koharu Sugawara, Chachi, Urban Dance Camp, Royal Family Dance Crew. I think global access of dance makes it different.
I think so too. Dance is far more appreciated mainstream-wise, but then at the same time there’s a whole style of what mainstream looks like. If I tell someone I do modern dance, they’ll be like oh I saw that on so you think you can dance, and I’m like, girl, I don't think we’re even talking about the same technique or idea of what it might even possibly look like. Even – I was in a company back in the States and the choreographer was trained by Martha Graham, and when he’s talking about these shows he’s like, these are freak shows, like acrobatic freak shows. It’s great that dance is more popular now, but it brings about this one look and idea of what it’s supposed to be like, and it’s not, if you never come out of that box, if you’re in the middle of America somewhere, and that's all you see for dance and your school does only that, you’ll come to New York and be like, what the hell is this? You’ll be completely out of, like a fish out of water, like, what? It’s interesting in that sense. That's why New York is really good because you can see so much of everything. I actually miss a lot more of that technique stuff. I feel like here, it’s almost too much abstract and too much – in the art scene, when you talk to other dancers and people who were actors and stuff that see shows, we often are like, how was that festival and they’re like, oh it was a lot of crap but there was that one good thing… There’s a lot of that in modern dance, like, okay, that's cool, but the whole thing for a week? I was like, technique, where is it? Berlin is very spacey in that sense, everyone does all kinds of whatever it is they want to do, but if you, dance-wise, if you’re looking to do dance you’ll find more opportunities in other cities, like Dusseldorf and Munich too, Hamburg, Frankfurt…
> I just saw a poster of a dance festival in Hamburg.
The dance culture is more there, technique-wise. And that's where the auditions mostly are, so I kind of find myself in a bit of a pickle here, so I’m here in Berlin in the best city that I could ever find for myself, but in order to go to the auditions I have to save up money and then go and then get it, whereas if you’re a European citizen, there are a bunch of government agencies that pay for you to go to your audition! I’m just like, dude, man! If I could get that deal, I’m still looking like, is something in Berlin, please let something be in Berlin, you know, I mean, and it’s not really working that way. So I have to find a better way to grab myself into a company, because most of my friends who are in a company, they have an apartment in Berlin but they spend most of their season and their year wherever their company is based out of, so their apartment is kind of just hanging or they sublet it out. Which I wouldn't mind doing, but I don't think it’s just the right timing just yet. I feel like I’m going to find something when the time is right, so yeah.
> But also that makes it easier for European citizens to get into it and do it.
Right? It’s far more appreciative and supportive, which is why it happens. There’s that value there. It’s not like, oh yeah, you won’t die if you don't do art, whatever. It’s like, let’s support the arts because from that come all kinds of great innovations! It’s great to have that kind of a cultural hub of things. It’s not just to be pretty, there’s more to it. Psychologically, physiologically, there’s more to it than that. I think [in the States] we are still underdeveloped in that sense – we’re still hung up on math and science, and it’s like, come on now, there’s more to the human dynamic than math and science.
> We’re still in the math-science-money phase. It’s very frustrating.
It is. I almost feel like it’s on purpose that there’s such a lack for the arts. Every time something must go, oh, get rid of music, get rid of drama – that's terrible. What the hell, it makes no sense.
> That's super interesting, that traditionally Europe has more of a culture that values the arts.
I always think of it as the United States is still super young, like a super young country, we haven’t gone through our millions of wars that all these European countries have gone through for centuries, like centuries – we’re like, barely a century and a half old, so it’s like, and when I see it from that perspective, America is like, “look how tough I am, give me attention!” [Laughing.] “Like my movie! Like my movie!” and it’s like, oh, you’re so cute. You’re still growing, you little baby. Okay, okay. So I see it like that. You guys can’t even stop shooting each other like, come on now. Oh man, do not get in a conversation with somebody about politics over here [in Berlin]. About, like, the presidential election – it’s just so embarrassing, like please. Let’s just not talk about it. It’s like apologizing to the world all the time, like oh man, we’re screwing up again. “How do you go from Obama to Trump?” I’m like, I live here now, I don't know. So embarrassing, gosh darn it. And it’s so funny because the people here are usually far more informed than Americans are, because [in the States] we’re bombarded by whomever’s baby, or like somebody’s drama, somebody getting married, who’s like nobody really. It’s weird.
> It's a different consciousness towards politics too.
For sure, yeah, it’s not number one priority. For most people, they try to ignore it, or they just don't want any part of it because they probably don't feel like they’re too much value to the system in the first place, so it’s like, they’re gonna do what they wanna do, but everyone here is like, what? Don't you guys care? And it’s like, sort of, yeah, but not really because what are you gonna do, whatever happens they can steal elections, they can change laws…you just kind of gotta go with the flow of stuff and cover your head.
> There are still too many people in the system who are not represented. I guess that just proves the baby America point: it’s working on it.
contact:
https://www.youtube.com/user/TheHashtagHeroTV
https://www.youtube.com/user/TheHashtagHeroTV